taxes. >> i want to reduce the deficit. you're absolutely wrong. i want to reduce the deficit j why are you afraid the fiscal cliff? >> because larry elder i believe that cutting spending will help grow the economy. i also believe a flat tax will help growth economy, but larry elder, my beef right now is it's all about revenues and tax rates and so forth, and i want lower spending because i think that's progrowth, larry elder. >> less money should be taken from the pockets of the american people, whether you're talking about deductions or loop hole, however you do it. less money should not -- should be taken from the american people, not more, and christiana roma said raising taxes is contractionary, lowering taxes section pangsry. one more time why do it at all? >> exaccuse me, larry. >> two things. there's a political reason and there's a policy reason. the political reason is we had an election. the american people decided tax rates were going to go up for the top 2% of income earners. the republicans tried the alternati